derspatz writes...(in reference to ISPs getting onboard) I reckon most don't care all that much at all other than how much of the promised tax payer millions they can get and deny their competition of.
how do you figure that... stats ?
Human nature, principals of commerce, acquisition and competition, self interest/preservation, and greed.
regarDS
Tuesday, November 04, 2008
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
Better yet, use the money to force the ISPs to send a disk out with every new signup they do to say YOU MUST install these products before you can use the net. And have the ISP box somehow probe the PC to check that it does have anti virus/spyware software installed.
Ha. I love it richary. 'bout time more of this kind of thinking burst forth in here.
Dunno how one would get around the linux issue in this case, but details details, and I reckon you're on to something.
It sounds like what most of us would like out of The Net is the kind of safe sanitised clarity we can get in our typical workplaces, but without the blat on the tubes and the like.
BlueCoatSystems, Oz. :)
regarDS
Ha. I love it richary. 'bout time more of this kind of thinking burst forth in here.
Dunno how one would get around the linux issue in this case, but details details, and I reckon you're on to something.
It sounds like what most of us would like out of The Net is the kind of safe sanitised clarity we can get in our typical workplaces, but without the blat on the tubes and the like.
BlueCoatSystems, Oz. :)
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
[deleted] writes...And from what I have gathered, you've been stinking up every iteration of online communication since biblical times. That's quite possibly why BBS turned into whatever, turned into blah, turned into internet: To get the f--k away from you.
Absolute gold. I love it!
Gather around, my children, and thank me for this your McNet that thou so enjoyest, for without me, it might never have been. :)
regarDS
Absolute gold. I love it!
Gather around, my children, and thank me for this your McNet that thou so enjoyest, for without me, it might never have been. :)
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
Derspatz must be crying his little heart out right about now, seeing his fascist idol brought low
Sorry to have to disappoint [deleted], but I don't have idols, follow no sports, have no heros ... well, other than Stephen Bradbury and Jackie Chan in this modern era that is – with Stephen figuring bigger on the Hero scale for what he achieved at Those winter olympics.
Until joining this forum I had never heard of Senator Conroy and other than what I have read in this forum, I know nothing else about him either. Did I even spell his name correctly ?
Anyway, there's another reply to the tally for those you have provoked out of me. What is the count up to now ?
BTW, I'm somewhat anti surrogacy and IVF (even though I myself am an adoptee) ... in fact, I barely support any kind of breeding at all – didn't you notice the link to http://www.vhemt.org from my blog and web page ? :)
Hmmmm, I wonder if surrogacy and IVF will be on the filter black-list – and if not, how I might help get it added.
regarDS
Sorry to have to disappoint [deleted], but I don't have idols, follow no sports, have no heros ... well, other than Stephen Bradbury and Jackie Chan in this modern era that is – with Stephen figuring bigger on the Hero scale for what he achieved at Those winter olympics.
Until joining this forum I had never heard of Senator Conroy and other than what I have read in this forum, I know nothing else about him either. Did I even spell his name correctly ?
Anyway, there's another reply to the tally for those you have provoked out of me. What is the count up to now ?
BTW, I'm somewhat anti surrogacy and IVF (even though I myself am an adoptee) ... in fact, I barely support any kind of breeding at all – didn't you notice the link to http://www.vhemt.org from my blog and web page ? :)
Hmmmm, I wonder if surrogacy and IVF will be on the filter black-list – and if not, how I might help get it added.
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
derspatz writes...
Not bad. Not bad at all, Mark.
I'm not just a pretty face.
– mark
Heh ... and according to page 2 of the Rogues gallery (Hi Val) not even. Nor I. :)
http://members.pcug.org.au/~val/ltuae/
@ the end of the day, I'm sure balance will be achieved.
As for preservation of The Net against a hostile power hungry Government and/or special interest groups, I reckon we should consider the potential of the seed.
More on that another time, but I will say that trimming/lopping branches etc can be a never ending task ...
Every Government is replaced by another. The secret to survival is being either irrelevant or out of reach of all of them.
He who can destory a thing can control a thing, but he who can tame a thing can gain a devoted dependent servant and/or companion.
In the mean time, as someone wise once said; "It's hard to kick against the pricks" ...
regarDS
Not bad. Not bad at all, Mark.
I'm not just a pretty face.
– mark
Heh ... and according to page 2 of the Rogues gallery (Hi Val) not even. Nor I. :)
http://members.pcug.org.au/~val/ltuae/
@ the end of the day, I'm sure balance will be achieved.
As for preservation of The Net against a hostile power hungry Government and/or special interest groups, I reckon we should consider the potential of the seed.
More on that another time, but I will say that trimming/lopping branches etc can be a never ending task ...
Every Government is replaced by another. The secret to survival is being either irrelevant or out of reach of all of them.
He who can destory a thing can control a thing, but he who can tame a thing can gain a devoted dependent servant and/or companion.
In the mean time, as someone wise once said; "It's hard to kick against the pricks" ...
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
If people are true to their convictions, they should also be against such government intervention in other medium. It is simply illogical to not be consistent on this issue.
Now that I've worked my way back up the line, I find I have no objection to this person's POV at all ... and in fact agree with them in this issue of consistency.
regarDS
Now that I've worked my way back up the line, I find I have no objection to this person's POV at all ... and in fact agree with them in this issue of consistency.
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
buggered if i know why we are talking about radio when we should be discussing the internet ... keep on topic , that is after all where the filter is being proposed to be put is it not ?
Despite what I just said/suggested, case-sensitive does have a valid point when the subject is about broadly reaching communications, and it is a point that does tie in with my objection for so many in here to be treating the internut as the be all and end all of communications along with the hysterical nonsense that "free speech" would in some way fail if The Web/Net was no more.
Tis refreshing (though distracting and not necessarily welcome at this time) to see this new level brought to things however out of primary context, I reckon.
Doesn't mean I welcome it though. :)
regarDS
Despite what I just said/suggested, case-sensitive does have a valid point when the subject is about broadly reaching communications, and it is a point that does tie in with my objection for so many in here to be treating the internut as the be all and end all of communications along with the hysterical nonsense that "free speech" would in some way fail if The Web/Net was no more.
Tis refreshing (though distracting and not necessarily welcome at this time) to see this new level brought to things however out of primary context, I reckon.
Doesn't mean I welcome it though. :)
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
Mark Newton writes...
Well do you subscribe to the argument you presented or not?Mark Newton writes...I didn't say I agreed with the argument, case, I just laid out the one the Government has used to regulate radio.
Well do you subscribe to the argument you presented or not?
Most irrelevant. Suggest you give it up case-sensitive, especially considering how interactive the radio and TV isn't.
regarDS
Well do you subscribe to the argument you presented or not?Mark Newton writes...I didn't say I agreed with the argument, case, I just laid out the one the Government has used to regulate radio.
Well do you subscribe to the argument you presented or not?
Most irrelevant. Suggest you give it up case-sensitive, especially considering how interactive the radio and TV isn't.
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
WTF is Promise Keeper men??
An AOG thing if memory serves me correctly. Think Hillsong members who are too old to enter Oz Idol and you'l be on track.
regarDS
An AOG thing if memory serves me correctly. Think Hillsong members who are too old to enter Oz Idol and you'l be on track.
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
As said before, I will drive from Sydney to Canberra to join a well organised protest if one happens.
Truth be told, you'd make the drive just for the fun of it, yes ? :)
regarDS
PS: Will you be in Perth for a few days after 07/01/09 ? I'll be back in town by then.
Truth be told, you'd make the drive just for the fun of it, yes ? :)
regarDS
PS: Will you be in Perth for a few days after 07/01/09 ? I'll be back in town by then.
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
derspatz writes...
the big one from .il ?derspatz writes...Think of a big international company that specialises in IT type stuff
the big one from .il ?
Clue.
I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride my bike, I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride it where I like ...
Sounds like those who don't want ISP level content filtering, eh ?
and no, "I don't want to be the President of America".
... all I want to do is bicycle.
regarDS
the big one from .il ?derspatz writes...Think of a big international company that specialises in IT type stuff
the big one from .il ?
Clue.
I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride my bike, I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride it where I like ...
Sounds like those who don't want ISP level content filtering, eh ?
and no, "I don't want to be the President of America".
... all I want to do is bicycle.
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
And I don't honestly believe the Rudd government is planning on using this tool for censorship etc.
As a shift worker, I regularly watch parliarment question time (it is either that or offensive/degrading FLIRT/porn spiced dating adverts) and so inclined to disagree.
It has been talked about before that war could be declared on us by (say) Indonesia.
Well, they do have 240+ million to our 20 million, so I sometimes wonder how many volcanoes have to open in that ring of fire before they decide North Oz looks a bit more stable ...
Then the government decides they need censorship of foreign news reports etc. Well the tool is already there to allow them to do that with this filter
To stop us panicking, requiring our guns back, and stop shopping for banal nonsenses ? Hmmmm .. but how deep would "their" bunker be to keep them safe should we be invaded ?
Nah, doesn't work for me ... if the Powers That Be thought we were in danger from a foreign land, they would do better to make sure we were armed and dangerous in order to give them as much breathing/running/hiding time as possible.
Such sell out ideas only work if there is an actual benefit to those doing the selling out.
Depends how the false postives are generated. Is it a blacklist? Is it an algorithm that looks for words or pictures – as someone has suggested before there go all the information sites on breast cancer.
I think we are trying to get too clever here. Sure, many of us here (including me) think along such lines, for after all, we are about using IT to make the world a clever wonderful and better place. Conroy and CO are just about keeping the most amount of people happy with the least amount of complexity, thus, I wouldn't be surprised if the final product wasn't much better than being akin to host file exclusions or something like that.
Another pet word. Oh well, decrease your credibility slightly more if that is possible.
(presumably in response to "notwork" ?)
Only a narcissist sees themselves as vital, important, necessary, needful to the drama they have immersed themselves in. I, on the other hand, am more than happy to have my words, even single words, outlive me ... especially if it helps diffuse the bane of our world; Fanatical Religious Zealotism, and instead helps folk to think/act/be more balanced in life.
You are talking about the proposed faster network – but at the same time you said you are happy on 256k ADSL. So yes – you will get a hit on your connection. As will I using a 3G based speed limited service. So you might as well contact your service provider and say I don't need 256 anymore, drop it to 180 please.
No richary, because the fact is no one really knows ... all that is going on here is hysterical scare mongering for personal gain. Same applies re: the environtologists and the church of environtology, ec, etc.
[confession]
You might remember me as someone particularly Fanatical once upon a time. Sure, I'm still fanatical, but mainly against religious zealotry whatever form it might take (religion being such a broad term and measure).
Why ? September 11, 2001. Since then, whenever I see anything getting too fanatical in one direction or another, I seek to find ways to bring it back to balance, the middle. Can you see why I might be attracted to this discussion and issue ?
[/confession]
I'm happy enough with the 256/65 connection ATM because there is nothing worth spending anything more on ATM IMHO. Sure, it would be nice to be downloading Ubuntu 8.10 while typing this and getting the next season of "Reaper" (excellent comedy about someone who's soul is sold to the devil by his parents) from the US at the same time, but I can wait for it to come here on DVD and the next PC mag to include it.
Perhaps we ALL need to slow down a bit ... even if just to learn to appreciate things a little bit more/better ?
That being said, I doubt if there will be any kind of meaningful slow down for very long.
There never is, dammit.
regarDS
As a shift worker, I regularly watch parliarment question time (it is either that or offensive/degrading FLIRT/porn spiced dating adverts) and so inclined to disagree.
It has been talked about before that war could be declared on us by (say) Indonesia.
Well, they do have 240+ million to our 20 million, so I sometimes wonder how many volcanoes have to open in that ring of fire before they decide North Oz looks a bit more stable ...
Then the government decides they need censorship of foreign news reports etc. Well the tool is already there to allow them to do that with this filter
To stop us panicking, requiring our guns back, and stop shopping for banal nonsenses ? Hmmmm .. but how deep would "their" bunker be to keep them safe should we be invaded ?
Nah, doesn't work for me ... if the Powers That Be thought we were in danger from a foreign land, they would do better to make sure we were armed and dangerous in order to give them as much breathing/running/hiding time as possible.
Such sell out ideas only work if there is an actual benefit to those doing the selling out.
Depends how the false postives are generated. Is it a blacklist? Is it an algorithm that looks for words or pictures – as someone has suggested before there go all the information sites on breast cancer.
I think we are trying to get too clever here. Sure, many of us here (including me) think along such lines, for after all, we are about using IT to make the world a clever wonderful and better place. Conroy and CO are just about keeping the most amount of people happy with the least amount of complexity, thus, I wouldn't be surprised if the final product wasn't much better than being akin to host file exclusions or something like that.
Another pet word. Oh well, decrease your credibility slightly more if that is possible.
(presumably in response to "notwork" ?)
Only a narcissist sees themselves as vital, important, necessary, needful to the drama they have immersed themselves in. I, on the other hand, am more than happy to have my words, even single words, outlive me ... especially if it helps diffuse the bane of our world; Fanatical Religious Zealotism, and instead helps folk to think/act/be more balanced in life.
You are talking about the proposed faster network – but at the same time you said you are happy on 256k ADSL. So yes – you will get a hit on your connection. As will I using a 3G based speed limited service. So you might as well contact your service provider and say I don't need 256 anymore, drop it to 180 please.
No richary, because the fact is no one really knows ... all that is going on here is hysterical scare mongering for personal gain. Same applies re: the environtologists and the church of environtology, ec, etc.
[confession]
You might remember me as someone particularly Fanatical once upon a time. Sure, I'm still fanatical, but mainly against religious zealotry whatever form it might take (religion being such a broad term and measure).
Why ? September 11, 2001. Since then, whenever I see anything getting too fanatical in one direction or another, I seek to find ways to bring it back to balance, the middle. Can you see why I might be attracted to this discussion and issue ?
[/confession]
I'm happy enough with the 256/65 connection ATM because there is nothing worth spending anything more on ATM IMHO. Sure, it would be nice to be downloading Ubuntu 8.10 while typing this and getting the next season of "Reaper" (excellent comedy about someone who's soul is sold to the devil by his parents) from the US at the same time, but I can wait for it to come here on DVD and the next PC mag to include it.
Perhaps we ALL need to slow down a bit ... even if just to learn to appreciate things a little bit more/better ?
That being said, I doubt if there will be any kind of meaningful slow down for very long.
There never is, dammit.
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
Does that answer your question?
- mark
Not bad. Not bad at all, Mark.
regarDS
- mark
Not bad. Not bad at all, Mark.
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
Are you sure he's from Perth?
Perth/York these days.
IT shift-worker type (4 days on, 4 days off, 12hr shifts) if it is any help or relevance. Think of a big international company that specialises in IT type stuff ... oh, and add Z/OS MVS/JES2 mainframe to the equation.
I'm a dinosaur and my preferred hardware is of similar impressiveness and resilience.
However, praise The Great Compiler for TCP/IP ... and the cluey types wise enough to meld it with MVS mainframe.
Hmmm ... I wonder if that big international company I didn't mention is IPv6 ready !
Rest assured that it ain't going to give a crap about ISP level content filtering coz it is already filtering things pretty well (I couldn't even look up Melbourne Cup race start time today ... but it doesn't have a prob with WP :)), and we already VPN so much that it would be safer to assume that one is VPNed into something than not ...
regarDS
Perth/York these days.
IT shift-worker type (4 days on, 4 days off, 12hr shifts) if it is any help or relevance. Think of a big international company that specialises in IT type stuff ... oh, and add Z/OS MVS/JES2 mainframe to the equation.
I'm a dinosaur and my preferred hardware is of similar impressiveness and resilience.
However, praise The Great Compiler for TCP/IP ... and the cluey types wise enough to meld it with MVS mainframe.
Hmmm ... I wonder if that big international company I didn't mention is IPv6 ready !
Rest assured that it ain't going to give a crap about ISP level content filtering coz it is already filtering things pretty well (I couldn't even look up Melbourne Cup race start time today ... but it doesn't have a prob with WP :)), and we already VPN so much that it would be safer to assume that one is VPNed into something than not ...
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
some isp.s care about what is happening with this issue, others do not care and some have an opinion and some dont
I reckon most don't care all that much at all other than how much of the promised tax payer millions they can get and deny their competition of.
regarDS
I reckon most don't care all that much at all other than how much of the promised tax payer millions they can get and deny their competition of.
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
That is the guise to which they are pretending to want to do it.
Careful now richary, you don't want to start sounding like a certain conspiracy minded little bird from a certain era. ;)
If it is automatic then there is even more chance of false positives and the opposite.
As Darwin and Dawkins might say ... "adapt or die".
But seriously, folk who find their sites being false positive affected will soon change things so that they don't.
Speed hit ? Will any of us notice if this sort of thing is rolled out with the promised faster notwork ?
regarDS
Careful now richary, you don't want to start sounding like a certain conspiracy minded little bird from a certain era. ;)
If it is automatic then there is even more chance of false positives and the opposite.
As Darwin and Dawkins might say ... "adapt or die".
But seriously, folk who find their sites being false positive affected will soon change things so that they don't.
Speed hit ? Will any of us notice if this sort of thing is rolled out with the promised faster notwork ?
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
Derspatz you're too old to get facebook, but Carl is all too correct. Nobody would join unless they felt motivated about the issue..
http://www.facebook.com/people/David_Sparrow/678208248
As the pic indicates ... Cheers. :)
http://www.facebook.com/people/David_Sparrow/678208248
As the pic indicates ... Cheers. :)
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
Much like the most sophisticated net users will be hardly bothered by filters for the masses.
... and what sort of ratio of "sophisticated net users" to "masses" do you think you might be able to cook up (with a serve of home grown garden salad even) for the forum ?
Or more importantly, which group do you think Senator Conroy et al is more interested in the opinions of ?
Hint, not many from in here ... and certainly no one under the age of 21ish (or even somewhat more), and certainly no one at all under the age of 18.
I wonder how many of the 11,000 facebook group members (even before taking away those who have no prob with the filtering and have just joined the group to take a look) that leaves ...
regarDS
... and what sort of ratio of "sophisticated net users" to "masses" do you think you might be able to cook up (with a serve of home grown garden salad even) for the forum ?
Or more importantly, which group do you think Senator Conroy et al is more interested in the opinions of ?
Hint, not many from in here ... and certainly no one under the age of 21ish (or even somewhat more), and certainly no one at all under the age of 18.
I wonder how many of the 11,000 facebook group members (even before taking away those who have no prob with the filtering and have just joined the group to take a look) that leaves ...
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
They loves them some non lethal methods, them fine dutiful police persons. Upstanding bastions of peace and civility.
... and you are all the more likely to behave yourself because of it ?
I can imagine the keyboards of the future. In order to use them one will have to link a biometric ID checking lead from the keyboard to a conductive wristband (with optional clips for other areas if that is your warped preference) and every link you attempt that is on the "naughty" list, a suitably leveled shock is returned instead.
Oh, and every time you type something nice, a lovely voice will exclaim from the bowels of the machine "that's a Good Citizen ... your country is proud of you" or "thank you for thinking of the children" ala "thank you for choosing value wrap" from the PC game "SystemShock2". :)
regarDS
... and you are all the more likely to behave yourself because of it ?
I can imagine the keyboards of the future. In order to use them one will have to link a biometric ID checking lead from the keyboard to a conductive wristband (with optional clips for other areas if that is your warped preference) and every link you attempt that is on the "naughty" list, a suitably leveled shock is returned instead.
Oh, and every time you type something nice, a lovely voice will exclaim from the bowels of the machine "that's a Good Citizen ... your country is proud of you" or "thank you for thinking of the children" ala "thank you for choosing value wrap" from the PC game "SystemShock2". :)
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
I already told you that you shouldn't make rational decisions.
Quote of the day, anyone ? :)
regarDS
Quote of the day, anyone ? :)
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
how is making those who use the internet to commit crime go underground and to use methods which makes it near impossible authorities to monitor and therefore catch these criminals a safer country?
Will it ? Has anyone put the question to those involved in crime prevention ?
Someone want to put $2 on newport no: 17 for me ? I'm being filtered. :)
regarDS
Will it ? Has anyone put the question to those involved in crime prevention ?
Someone want to put $2 on newport no: 17 for me ? I'm being filtered. :)
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
Are you seriously advocating that the Government should have unlimited potential to break the law, by levying punishments without legally-required due process?
I'm seriously advocating that just as our elected governments ensure our nation's departments in relation to administering law and order are committed to crime prevention and peace keeping offline, that the same be applied online.
Better to prevent a crime from happening (especially when such prevention can be reasonably achieved to a reasonable level) than have to deal with it after the fact.
If you don't believe in that, then feel free to take down your firewalls, spam filters, virus checkers, security screens and doors, start leaving your vehicles unlocked and the keys in them, and start protesting to the government about all the money spent on paying the police and armed forces for being on patrol.
The proposed filter IS all about prevention, isn't it ... and not too much different to the many many layers of prevention that you both use and support already ?
BTW, I'm sure many readers in here will be interested to know when the ISP you are employed by is going to throw away its firewalling etc ... although somehow I think it would be more from the point of view of moving to another ISP than supporting such an idea.
regarDS
I'm seriously advocating that just as our elected governments ensure our nation's departments in relation to administering law and order are committed to crime prevention and peace keeping offline, that the same be applied online.
Better to prevent a crime from happening (especially when such prevention can be reasonably achieved to a reasonable level) than have to deal with it after the fact.
If you don't believe in that, then feel free to take down your firewalls, spam filters, virus checkers, security screens and doors, start leaving your vehicles unlocked and the keys in them, and start protesting to the government about all the money spent on paying the police and armed forces for being on patrol.
The proposed filter IS all about prevention, isn't it ... and not too much different to the many many layers of prevention that you both use and support already ?
BTW, I'm sure many readers in here will be interested to know when the ISP you are employed by is going to throw away its firewalling etc ... although somehow I think it would be more from the point of view of moving to another ISP than supporting such an idea.
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
A bit like this crazy lawless and selfish notion of some sort of deserved god given right to unfettered uncontrolled/unmoderated/ungoverned internut access just because one has access to a feed and a device to connect with, really ...
and that relates to: "It's not going to stop stalkers, murders rapists, thefts, break ins etc.... Because you don't need the Internet for that..............", how ?
Who is actually suggesting that ISP level content filtering has anything to do with those things, let alone be expected to help prevent them ?
Need I say further?
You do, but probably shouldn't bother. There, I've given you the out you so obviously need.
regarDS
and that relates to: "It's not going to stop stalkers, murders rapists, thefts, break ins etc.... Because you don't need the Internet for that..............", how ?
Who is actually suggesting that ISP level content filtering has anything to do with those things, let alone be expected to help prevent them ?
Need I say further?
You do, but probably shouldn't bother. There, I've given you the out you so obviously need.
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
If and when I break the law, I expect my case to be handled with due process and be punished accordingly.
Ah, so you would prefer a reporting system rather than a filtering system, Alex12 ?
The filter:
(a) assumes that I am a criminal by default,
I don't see the filter as assuming anything ... it is just a filter busy doing what filters do – keeping the pond clean. :)
The not unreasonable assumption and cause for the filter is that there are things out there that should be filtered, so that is what it is for. No assumption is made that you are a criminal, and nor would you even begin to be unless you attempted to access things deemed illegal, and the fact that the filter would filter you means that a greater crime has been prevented from happening.
Just think of the savings on the legal system. :)
(b) ignores due process,
So Oz should cease and desist in all attempts at crime prevention and instead only worry about dealing with crime after it is committed ? Not very comforting ! Time you took down your security door on your house and firewall on your computers, hmmm ?
( c) doesn't punish me other than by (not really) limiting my ability to engage in further allegedly illegal activities.
Let me get this right. You want to be able to freely commit a crime so you can waste Oz resources by tying up court time so that a punishment can be inflicted upon you ?
That doesn't sound very healthy to me – but cheers for being an obvious example of why the internut in Oz is way over-due for a greater degree of filtering than it already has ... and also putting the "U" into that word I like to use. :)
regarDS
Ah, so you would prefer a reporting system rather than a filtering system, Alex12 ?
The filter:
(a) assumes that I am a criminal by default,
I don't see the filter as assuming anything ... it is just a filter busy doing what filters do – keeping the pond clean. :)
The not unreasonable assumption and cause for the filter is that there are things out there that should be filtered, so that is what it is for. No assumption is made that you are a criminal, and nor would you even begin to be unless you attempted to access things deemed illegal, and the fact that the filter would filter you means that a greater crime has been prevented from happening.
Just think of the savings on the legal system. :)
(b) ignores due process,
So Oz should cease and desist in all attempts at crime prevention and instead only worry about dealing with crime after it is committed ? Not very comforting ! Time you took down your security door on your house and firewall on your computers, hmmm ?
( c) doesn't punish me other than by (not really) limiting my ability to engage in further allegedly illegal activities.
Let me get this right. You want to be able to freely commit a crime so you can waste Oz resources by tying up court time so that a punishment can be inflicted upon you ?
That doesn't sound very healthy to me – but cheers for being an obvious example of why the internut in Oz is way over-due for a greater degree of filtering than it already has ... and also putting the "U" into that word I like to use. :)
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
derspatz writes...So why bring it up, [derspatz] ?
Because you bring it up.
And trying to blame it on us.
Oh ? Feel free to provide quotes to back that up. Perhaps you were thinking of a message from someone else ?
regarDS
Because you bring it up.
And trying to blame it on us.
Oh ? Feel free to provide quotes to back that up. Perhaps you were thinking of a message from someone else ?
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
It's not going to stop stalkers, murders rapists, thefts, break ins etc.... "Because you don't need the Internet for that..............
So why bring it up, [deleted] ?
regarDS
So why bring it up, [deleted] ?
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
What you are assuming is that:
I'm not actually bothering to assume much if anything at all.
a) the internet filter is 100% effective
Irrelevant. Rarely is anything 100% effective or without some wriggle room for improvement. Unreasonable to expect a url filter to get it immediately right when we still can't even do that with spam filters.
Yet I'm quite happy with the level of effectiveness my email provider achieves in relation to filtering spam ... how about you ?
b) there will be no false positives
See above. I'm willing to suffer the odd/rare brief inconvenience in the form of collateral damage/friendly fire when it comes to "false positives" in comparison to predicted far greater ratio of "true positives".
"Near enough is good enough" is a well founded Oz attitude after all, and one that I am more than willing to continue to uphold.
c) it will not slow anything down
Another irrelevance, especially considering standard advancements and how quick they come. Any slow down would barely even register as a speed-bump in the overall scheme and progression of things.
d) it will only block what is _strictly_ illegal.
I am quite confident that it will be used to try and block as best it can that which is deemed "strictly illegal" now, and also what else is later deemed to be illegal as established by common concent of Oz society by way of usual process in terms of governance etc.
In short, I would expect it to remain flexible enough to not only deal with things judged illegal in the here and now, but also in the future.
Things that none of us have The Right to promote or partake in as judged by the majority for the benefit of the entire nation.
regarDS
I'm not actually bothering to assume much if anything at all.
a) the internet filter is 100% effective
Irrelevant. Rarely is anything 100% effective or without some wriggle room for improvement. Unreasonable to expect a url filter to get it immediately right when we still can't even do that with spam filters.
Yet I'm quite happy with the level of effectiveness my email provider achieves in relation to filtering spam ... how about you ?
b) there will be no false positives
See above. I'm willing to suffer the odd/rare brief inconvenience in the form of collateral damage/friendly fire when it comes to "false positives" in comparison to predicted far greater ratio of "true positives".
"Near enough is good enough" is a well founded Oz attitude after all, and one that I am more than willing to continue to uphold.
c) it will not slow anything down
Another irrelevance, especially considering standard advancements and how quick they come. Any slow down would barely even register as a speed-bump in the overall scheme and progression of things.
d) it will only block what is _strictly_ illegal.
I am quite confident that it will be used to try and block as best it can that which is deemed "strictly illegal" now, and also what else is later deemed to be illegal as established by common concent of Oz society by way of usual process in terms of governance etc.
In short, I would expect it to remain flexible enough to not only deal with things judged illegal in the here and now, but also in the future.
Things that none of us have The Right to promote or partake in as judged by the majority for the benefit of the entire nation.
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
derspatz writes...Rights without Responsibilities are seldom deserved nor should ever be easily granted.
Mate, this is the government pre-emptively deciding that I deserve no rights and will fail in my responsibilities to society unless they step in and take care of it all for me.
No they are not. Our elected Government are merely attempting to bring illegal online activities and information into line with the same sorts of things done to control/prevent them offline.
Besides, you don't have The Right to break the law but rather merely the choice and ability to. If anything, all of us have The Right to share an environment where law breaking is rendered harder to achieve and law breakers are less likely to prosper.
The majority of people in Oz (particularly Krudd's "working families" et al) want law and order in this country and society, so it only stands to reason that methods used to achieve this should extend to every level and aspect of common life.
Which obviously must therefore include the internut.
Only those wanting to continue to selfishly flout the law without attracting deserved consequence would argue otherwise. :) :) :)
regarDS
Mate, this is the government pre-emptively deciding that I deserve no rights and will fail in my responsibilities to society unless they step in and take care of it all for me.
No they are not. Our elected Government are merely attempting to bring illegal online activities and information into line with the same sorts of things done to control/prevent them offline.
Besides, you don't have The Right to break the law but rather merely the choice and ability to. If anything, all of us have The Right to share an environment where law breaking is rendered harder to achieve and law breakers are less likely to prosper.
The majority of people in Oz (particularly Krudd's "working families" et al) want law and order in this country and society, so it only stands to reason that methods used to achieve this should extend to every level and aspect of common life.
Which obviously must therefore include the internut.
Only those wanting to continue to selfishly flout the law without attracting deserved consequence would argue otherwise. :) :) :)
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
selfish ? what are you talking about ?
Pertaining to self and self interest.
regarDS
Pertaining to self and self interest.
regarDS
Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt7
http://www.equalopportunitycommission.vic.gov.au/human%20rights/the%20victorian%20charter%20of%20human%20rights%20and%20responsibilities/default.asp
[QUOTE]
Respect
Protection of families and children
Families are entitled to be protected by society and the State. Public authorities should keep this in mind when carrying out their duties. Children have the right to protection according to their best interests, without discrimination.
Limiting human rights
The Charter recognises that human rights are not absolute but may be limited in certain circumstances. Under the Charter rights may be limited but only when justified in a free and democratic society, taking into account relevant factors. These factors involve the following types of questions:
Which right is to be limited? Is the right very important in international law, for example, freedom from torture?
Is the purpose for wanting to limit the human right very pressing and important to society?
What sort of limitation is being imposed? How could it infringe human rights?
Is the limitation likely to achieve its purpose? Is the limitation excessive or out of proportion to its purpose?
Are there any less restrictive means reasonably available to achieve the purpose that the limitation seeks to achieve?
For example, the right to freedom of expression may be restricted in order to respect the rights and reputation of other people or for the protection of national security, public order, health or morality.
This allows a balance to be struck between people's rights and a need for Government departments and other public organisations to protect the broader public interest.
[/QUOTE]
A particular irony of the whole document is that although it claims to be a charter of/for Human Rights and Responsibilities (as you can imagine, that last word got me excited), the actual responsibilities detailed are more to do with administrative departments as they relate to "Rights" than with individuals who may or may not be clamouring for Rights which may or may not be actually deserved.
Typical.
Rights without Responsibilities are seldom deserved nor should ever be easily granted.
A bit like this crazy lawless and selfish notion of some sort of deserved god given right to unfettered uncontrolled/unmoderated/ungoverned internut access just because one has access to a feed and a device to connect with, really ...
regarDS
[QUOTE]
Respect
Protection of families and children
Families are entitled to be protected by society and the State. Public authorities should keep this in mind when carrying out their duties. Children have the right to protection according to their best interests, without discrimination.
Limiting human rights
The Charter recognises that human rights are not absolute but may be limited in certain circumstances. Under the Charter rights may be limited but only when justified in a free and democratic society, taking into account relevant factors. These factors involve the following types of questions:
Which right is to be limited? Is the right very important in international law, for example, freedom from torture?
Is the purpose for wanting to limit the human right very pressing and important to society?
What sort of limitation is being imposed? How could it infringe human rights?
Is the limitation likely to achieve its purpose? Is the limitation excessive or out of proportion to its purpose?
Are there any less restrictive means reasonably available to achieve the purpose that the limitation seeks to achieve?
For example, the right to freedom of expression may be restricted in order to respect the rights and reputation of other people or for the protection of national security, public order, health or morality.
This allows a balance to be struck between people's rights and a need for Government departments and other public organisations to protect the broader public interest.
[/QUOTE]
A particular irony of the whole document is that although it claims to be a charter of/for Human Rights and Responsibilities (as you can imagine, that last word got me excited), the actual responsibilities detailed are more to do with administrative departments as they relate to "Rights" than with individuals who may or may not be clamouring for Rights which may or may not be actually deserved.
Typical.
Rights without Responsibilities are seldom deserved nor should ever be easily granted.
A bit like this crazy lawless and selfish notion of some sort of deserved god given right to unfettered uncontrolled/unmoderated/ungoverned internut access just because one has access to a feed and a device to connect with, really ...
regarDS
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