Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

everyone will be asking if someone has a saved page of the reference your looking for and they will sell it to you for a price, looks a like a new ecomerce business idea that could make someone lots of money

Now you are really thinking "outside the filter". :) Progress is being made as to not allowing ILCF to be so much of negative.

Which reminds me, has anyone told Senator Conroy about "usenet", "newsgroups" and "binaries" ?

Another "ooops" for The Filterers, eh ?

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

TANSTAAFL,

i dont speak israeli so i dont know that term

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TANSTAAFL

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch", popularized by science fiction writer Robert A. Heinlein in his 1966 novel The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress"

"TANSTAAFL means that a person or a society cannot get something for nothing. Even if something appears to be free, there is always a cost to the person or to society as a whole even though that cost may be hidden or distributed"

Well worth a read as a reasonable education re: politics and how to overthrow a corrupt and tyrannical Government. :)

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

derspatz writes...I doubt if ILCF is going to negatively impact on my day to day internut use in the slightest.

and if it did ?

Part of the acceptable price one has to pay in order to protect the rights of the children (yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll deem that quote of Rabbi Daniel Lapin's, as so frequently mis-used and mis-attributed in here, already included by way of reply) and the interests of Big Businesses that help sustain our economies.

TANSTAAFL, and for too long too many have been trying to eat for free at the expense of the rest of us. ILCF is but a small part of bringing about a more controlled user-pays system, among other things.

So my short answer is "fine by me".

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

'Young people' do what they want on the net, and nobody will stop that. Not governments, not schools, not parents, nobody. We are not idiots like Senator Conroy thinks we are. We know about Tor, We know about UltraSurf, we know about anonymous proxies, we know about VPNs. And those who don't will be taught by people with a level of knowledge like my own – and people like me are hardly in short supply.

So what are you worried about ? Apparently, just like with me, neither ILCF nor Senator Conroy nor FF are going to negatively impact your day to day internut use either.

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

Let me draw you attention once again to the ACMA Blacklist:

http://users.bigpond.net.au/webmaster/ACMA.PNG

What a pretty picture. Who made that and for whom ?

99+% of the material to be blacklisted will not actually be illegal!

How can you justify and defend such blatent prudishness?

I've not actually been given any kind of example on non illegal prudishness, but as I've said before, I doubt if ILCF is going to negatively impact on my day to day internut use in the slightest.

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

there are far too many Good Financial Reasons for ILCF

Such as?

Such as the ones listed in the message where I wrote that.

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

You seem to think that it's going to remove the stuff from the net entirely

No I don't, and nor do I think ILCF is going to do a perfect job of keeping "unwanted" stuff out of every home everywhere in Oz – and my many contributions in these threads should have made that sentiment clear by now.

If they want to clean up the net, spend more on law enforcement who can track down and shut down these sites

I reckon "do both". Track down what can be tracked down and shut down what can be shut down, BUT ALSO filter what can be filtered. The problem is multi-faceted and so it isn't unreasonable to assume that the solutions employed will have to be too.

that ultimately is going to help favour the profits of Big Business as well as putting the Government in more favour when it comes to families and families of traditional faith

"Big Business" isn't going to benefit at all, since most businesses have things like this which sit between the net connection and filter things as well as managing antivirus, antispyware, antispam and so on.

The context of "Big Business" as I've been using it, is not so much to do with people at work being unable to access certain material, but rather the Businesses themselves not wanting the general public to have such free and unfettered non-profit giving access to what is their property/information that they have spent good money to obtain or develop in order to sell in one way or another.

Such as (I've mentioned a number of times) the News Media and the Music and Film industries. Etc.

Sure, ILCF isn't aimed at protecting the business of those Big Businesses right off the bat but you can bet your favorite P2P software that it is rightfully on the agenda for further down the track.

Which brings me back to my point that the opponents of ILCF aren't just up against the likes of FF and most married mothers with children, it is up against some prime big businesses who have very little to lose and lots to gain by a better control and regulation of information on The Net.

Which in turn convinces me that the opponents of ILCF are backing a losing horse; there are far too many Good Financial Reasons for ILCF than against it from the POV of Big Businesses who are currently losing money that could easily be gained by the introduction of suitable filtering and controls.

regarDS

[EDIT] Spelling.

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

Edit: Original Message Deleted. No point. I shouldn't have responded to an obvious attempt at a Troll. Please delete.

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

derspatz writes...I'm suggesting that one should rise above it ... "let the dead bury the dead", and all that.

Yeah, because not getting involved works out so well...

That would depend on whether something is actually worth getting involved with. The internut in its current form is your sacred cow, not mine, and while it remains so broken, so out of control, so misused and abused, so much like a virtual Babylon and cesspit rather than clean and beautiful Eden, (etc, etc), I for one am not going to deem it worthy of involving myself in keeping it that way ... I'll deem the "Clean the Stream" mop up crews the more worthy of involvement with and support of.

‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’

The "good men" are doing something; they are working on cleaning the stream and flushing the mire and disease and corruption away for the benefit of the whole community.

Tis a tough job (and obviously not popular for everyone) and I don't expect them to get it right straight off the bat, but that is not to say that the attempt and efforts should not be made at all.

Status quo is up against Big Businesses such as the News Media, Music and Film Industry, "Working Families" everywhere (especially children and the mother's of children), citizens of traditional faiths, and a Government who is historically more interested in protecting the profits (and taxes from) Big Businesses and Families over a small minority of selfish singles who although might protest about loss of rights that have neither been defined nor earned, are actually/realistically/selfishly more interested in maintaining links into the kinds of materials that either they ought not to, or at very least should be paying what is due for.

Who/what do you think is going to win when the situation is presented in those terms ?

ILCF phase one probably IS the thin end of the wedge that ultimately is going to help favour the profits of Big Business as well as putting the Government in more favour when it comes to families and families of traditional faiths.

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

OK, so here's the full letter I'll send off to Rudd's office today.

Mr. Rudd,

Etc. You probably should have used "PM" or "Prime Minster" there ... giving respect where it is due and all that (regardless of whether you voted for him or not. Manners and all that) but at a guess, that kind of letter is getting a bit long to get much in the way of attention or reply.

Be interested in what you get back but long experience has shown me that long-windedness gets one nowhere.

I said "shown", not "taught" or "learned". :)

Better 5 short letters sent, each covering part of the topic, than one single letter sent trying to cover the whole subject.

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

In case you want to change things on the other hand if you don't vote in Australia you can get fined.

That might not be the case for too much longer as there is a new push for voluntary voting and believe it or not, it is actually coming from some pollies !

BTW, voluntary voting typically favours conservative parties, yes ?

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

so your saying the Mp's and senators are lazy and dont really care, why do we bother voting for them then, its all a waste of time isnt it ?

Not too far off from what is basically my view. Add a bit of "acting out of self-interest" (which can take many forms, including some good ones) and we've nearly got the whole golem animated.

are you suggesting that we should just accept the nanny state scenario and just shut up about any opposition towards it and give up ?

I'm suggesting that one should rise above it and not get too sucked into wallowing around in the stink with the floaters.

"let the dead bury the dead", and all that.

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

So the week before last I rang my local MP Mr Peter Lindsay and was told to put my feelings in writing.

I did so and also emailed his office and heard nothing.

Etc, etc.

I don't understand why this sort of thing surprises you. At very least, doesn't the way you and most of your work mates approach their own jobs and virtually everyone you have ever observed in Oz in the way they go about their business, give you a fair idea of how the pollies and their offices go about theirs ?

There is no conspiracy – it all boils down to whatever the minimum is to get the necessary job done, and very little more on top of that.

We've elected a PM who (when not busy throwing away our surplus) likes to watch (as opposed to "do"), and cultivated a number of generations who not only see welfare as a right but also still whine and moan about it (let alone show the slightest bit of responsiblity towards contributing in any positive and useful way to our society). Is it any wonder that the rest of us have given up caring all that much any more ... what is left to care all that much about anyway ?

Our nation not only has become a Nanny state, but it now both needs and expects it.

Hence both the cause and necessity for ILCF or something like it.

Squeaking to your local member will only get you the kind of oil they mistakenly think you need ... you'd probably fair better at getting water from rocks than actually what you want from getting in the faces of pollies.

It's just another job after all – and one typically done badly.

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

Jeff's family is typical middle class double income and his parents take their parenting role seriously. Gary's parents, on the other hand, are complete yobbos and, when they're not blowing thier welfare cheque down at the TAB, they're sitting at home in front of the TV with beer in one hand and bong in the other.

So why are Jeff's parents letting their child hang out at Gary's parent's, again ?

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt12

We don't allow racists (a minority) dictate the policies of the country, why should we allow religious fundies to do the same?

Because unlike the racists (who are always arguing from a nonsense POV because of the fact that humanity consists of but one race; homo-sapien), the so called mis-named "religious fundies" are right ... and you are wrong ? :)

How about we leave all the "us and them" out of the discussion, hmmm ?

regarDS