Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt3

The ideas here about raising children are just downright nazi-esque-Have you ever watched a Nazi propaganda film-perhaps you should-happy clean well-fed workers with a stable job, clean wholesome children all pure and unexposed to any corrupting influences-thats where we are heading.

Aside from the constant and boring dipping into Godwin's Law in all of this, I for one am all for Oz being majority populated by "happy clean well-fed workers with a stable job, clean wholesome children all pure and unexposed to any corrupting influences", and if indeed "that's where we are heading" then it is a Good Place.

What HAS got me worried is to discover that there are apparently folk in this country who DON'T want to have a majority population of "happy clean well-fed workers with a stable job, clean wholesome children all pure and unexposed to any corrupting influences" ...

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt2

Just out of interest, If Telstra flat out refused to co-operate with the government on this, as they "own" the lines in Australia as far as I know (not very far mind you) would the government have no choice but to back down?

Actually, shouldn't the "line" and "tower" owners be forced to properly ensure that their equipment isn't being used to mule illegal material/data/information around and in and out of the country ?

No need for "The Government" to pay the pretty penny associated with the "nnn" system ("National Net Nanny", acronym © derspatz 2008 :)) if they instead enforce the appropriate laws properly.

In fact there is quite a lot of money OUR Government can make from off privatised telco systems who fail to properly supervise and moderate their systems.

Time we make Telstra responsible for this sort of thing – after it is completely sold off that is.

While The/Our Government are busy doing that, why don't the rest of us get busy setting up city wide packet forwarding short-hop wireless networks using any/every machine available in the vicinity that can be convinced to come on board, and encrypted inter-town/city/state data links, etc, and leave most of the old internut behind like part of a staged rocket left to burn up in the atmosphere after doing its job ? ;)

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt2

Why bother..

I think we should bother because there is a better internut to be made out of all this.

Ah well, there are those who want to climb into leaky boats and discover the New World, and there are those who would rather stay on the dock with all the same old same old.

C'mon [deleted], where is your pioneering spirit ?

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt2

Incorrect. I don't support censorship, never have.

I suspect if we really start to distill your assertion just made, Dean, we will find all sorts of censorship going on in your day to day life that you are not only quite willing to support, but also quite happily too ... and a lot of it you are so used to either doing or receiving that you're probably barely even away of it.

In fact, I sure you self-censored when you were writing that reply. I know I am now. :)

I also think we are all hypocrites when it comes to non self-generated censorship.

For example, we often want various Powers That Be to stop, prosecute, remove, punish, etc, etc, etc Uncle Bill or Neighbore Janice for doing this or that because it is Soooo wrong or Soooo annoying (etc ... with the Sooo Wrong usually determined by subjective morality based thinking), but Filters Forefend that we ourselves could ever be deemed worthy of such attentions from the Powers That Be for our own Sooo wrong behaviour as decided by others !

Which is another reason why I'm somewhat amused by the apparent gnashing of teeth and chest beating over this obviously doomed to failure filtering system.

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt2

Do they not realise that this is all about suppression of civil liberties ?

I for one don't think it is, but looking past the common catch cry of "civil liberties" (usually used in the context of selfishness anyway) for the moment, what about such things as "civil responsibilities" and "community welfare", etc ?

Shouldn't community orientated "civic responsibilities" take precedence over the typically selfish individualistic subjective morality governed "civic liberties" ?

What did you expect would eventually happen when so many of the Oz population abandons its own responsibilities in so many areas of family and community life, in preference of a responsibility challenged life with The Government nominated as Parent ?

The Government is merely trying to do the job we've required and paid them to do ... oh, and no, I didn't vote for this particular one. :)

As for our "civil liberties", well perhaps we should start by realising that our first liberty is actually being allowed to behave responsibly. If more of us had actually exercised that liberty, then there would be nothing for so many of us to be going "waa, waa, waa" about.

"ask not what your country can do for you", and all that.

regarDS
(PS: Mods, can you please delete my derspatz13 account – I've obviously managed to find my password to my original account)

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt2

Derpatz – I don't support censorship for any reason. Making us a better internut? And trivialising Mark's name because of things posted on a Fido BBS 17 years ago is hardly adding to the discussion?

richary, EVERYONE supports censorship, it's just that people rarely ever agree on what should be censored.

I've amended my post which included Ye Olde LTUAE endearment I mostly used to let him know who I was (and you know full well what I was called in return :)) ... I didn't realise such things were that precious around here but will keep it in mind for the future.

As for the filtering issue, the sad state of affairs is that because of declining values and apathy far too many people ARE leaving it up to the Goverment to do everything for their children short of giving actual birth to them.

You should be blaming those lazy (etc, etc) poor examples for parents (etc) along with the seriously depraved out there for creating the situation whereby the slightly less lazy but certainly well meaning folk want something done about this nasty internut thing wot they barely know the first thing about anyway.

You and I and probably most of the more 'puter savy folk around here know full well that what ever the ignorant government folk try to inflict upon us, a way around it will soon be found and in all probability an improvement that favours the common user will be achieved.

I see this all as a win-win as well as also quite a bit of a much ado about nothing.

Certainly nothing for any of us to get that much in a froth about.

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt2

there's no possibility that the blacklist won't leak. It might take a month, a year, five years, ten years, or 2 hours. But it will leak. Pressing it into service will be like setting a ticking time bomb, and when it happens there'll be a thronging multitude of bastards just like me pointing at Conroy and saying, "I told you so, you delusional pillock!"

Agree wholeheartedly with that, Mark. (oh, and hi to you, too. :)) We are talking about the public service after all, and not mere unbribable incorruptable automations.

Even more likely if out-sourced to bottom line motivated private companies.

Still no reason not to think of the POSITIVES of the Government trying to impliment such a doomed to failure system.

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt2

The question is not what *should* be banned, but do we want the government to have this control? They are scared because they can't control the net, unlike the subtle controls they can place on the existing media.

Indeedy richary, and But Of Course We don't want an idealistic govenment (served by so many folk who would never cut it in the Real World) busy leaving briefcased encased DVD backups of blacklists on the bus/train seat on the way home, or looking up the browsing habits of their hated next door neighbore.

I choose to deem this threat/promise/whatever of a national filtering scheme as a suitable carrot (or stick) to The Clever to come up with something that will forever take the internut beyond the control of ANY government short of destruction/jamming of the global communications systems.

Considering Mark's roots towards the end of the FIDO heyday, and FIDOnet's roots full-stop, I'm kinda disappointed at his current windmill tilt considering where this ill-advised government threat can really take us in terms of birthing something new and better.

If a NNN (national net nanny) makes us wanna make and make a better internut, then count me in !

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt2

As a systems/network administrator, let me briefly describe why this will not work. Firstly, you fail to account for the following:

- Roaming customers

- NAT

- Visitors

- Armies of worm riddled Windows boxen

Can't really argue with the bit about Windows (parably broken or not), but I'm talking about a progressive futuristic system wot relates to back in every case/moment to unique individuals (whether human or not) and where "anon" and "fake" (etc) is not a permitted part of the system.

Sure, not workable ATM, and prolly never due to more standard human nature.

What amuses me the most about all this "waa, waa, waa"ing (deem suitable snippet of Dr Cox from TV series "scrubs" for a visual, included) about "oh nos, my internut is going slowz and the govenment is out to get me" going on , is that it shows how unimaginative and useless most of its users are.

The reality is that should our big bad government (don't blame me, I didn't vote for them) slap an (predictably ineffective) filter (et al) upon Oz, then before you know it, a whole bunch of folk will get off their butt and make a better way of avoiding that mouse-trap.

And not before time, too.

Unfortunately, this means that the evil bad elements will also enjoy the improvements ... but they always have, yes ?

regarDS

Posted @ whirlpool - ILCF pt2

Just think how much better for the economy it would be if the money is spent on items that actually improve rather than hinder the productive capability of the nation.

Not all spending is good for the economy. Please read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

Sure, TANSTAAFL ... but what's in it for me ?!

... and think of the kiddies !

Come on folks, we've already shown we are prepared to sacrifice a little because of the big bad terrorists, so how much more should we be prepared to sacrifice for our children, hmmm ?

Where HAS the spirit of the ANZACs gotten to these days ?

Besides, there is plenty a dollar to be made out of this while the clever ones get busy creating a Internut system beyond all Government controls anywhere.

Yup, in the context of the broken window parable the shop-keeper doesn't get to spend his guilders the way he wants to – but nearly everyone else involved does, and in the case to hand, the "nearly everyone else" are those of us who don't really care who knows what they use the Internut for and actually do rather it was better governed in relation to whole bunch of stuff.

Ask yourself. WWJB ? ... and now you "B" accordingly :)

As for the poor shopkeeper in your parable ? Oh boohoo that he couldn't spend his guilders on pron and prostitution and the glazier got to send his own kid to a private school instead ...

Seems to me that mainly Good would come out of the right kind of filtering system.

Tell you what, why don't we allocate a fixed/permanent IP number to every soul, server, system, company, and business in Oz (much like a tax file number et al) for the life of the same, and log everything associated with the same for the life of the same whilst also giving FREE (well, free as anything tax-payer funded can be) Internut access to everyone in Oz.

No need for anyone to whine about having to pay to be monitored, and well logged patterns can be referred back to in the case of attention drawn to oneself rather than relying upon on-the-fly monitoring/filtering.

Thats kind of system can provide alibi for the innocent and/or hijacked, help kill spam dead once and for all, and provide whole new levels of protection and convenience as yet only dreamed about by Trekkie fans.

We can do this the easy way or the hard way. Current petulant "waa, waa, waa"ing is doing it the hard way IMBO.

Kinda the boring way of progressing, too.

regarDS